I really think that someone has something on the good Mayor that he wishes would not be made public. The excuse Mayor Finkbiener made was actuallythe worst excuse I have heard sice "My dog ate my homework." Dont worry Mr Mayor Marines are like elephants. They NEVER forget.

The USMC is a vital part of our protection, a band of patriotic American heros, a branch of our military that is essential for our survival. However, the reason we have MOA's and military bases is to keep that activity confined to its own areas and separate from civilian activity. Further, we are moving towards a police state where the posse comatatis is being ignored and wary citizens are becomming increasingly fearful of it getting to the point that our own military will be told to kick in our doors and take our weapons, which are lawful under the Constitution, just as was done in Germany in 1933, whereby defense against predators and tyrannical government was neutralized. Ergo, our military personnel are not corrupt, but they are subject to discretionary use by political leaders who may have ulterior motives amd agendas which are not in the best interests of American citizens and not in keeping with the rule of law as established by our Constitution. We have already seen the fourth ammendment virtually disappear since 9/11, as unlawful searches are rampant under the guise of terriorism prevention. This, in itself, is an outrage. We are, therefore, justified in being adamant about keeping our military and their activities separated from civilian activity in the United States, as it is widely believed that encroachments into our cities such as the Toledo plan is merely practice for what is to come against our cities and our citizens in the not too distant future. We should support the Mayor's decision, as it is not one of a question of patriotism, but one of exercising his duty of implementing action in accordance with the will of and in the best interests of the people who elected him as their trusted leader.

So, the mayor of Toledo kicked marines out of his city, not allowing them to practice mock urban warfare in the city. It seems he was not informed that they would be practicing there, he was skirted in the decision making process and only the police department gave consent. I see no problem with his decision. As mayor, he is the commander in chief of his city, and for him to not have been asked if US military could practice exercises both goes against the constitution and is extremely disrespectful. Mayor Finkbeiner did by the way release an apology to the actual Marines, but not to the people who went behind his back to set up the exercises.
We have the largest military in the world, and I think that they should not be relying on major US cities for training grounds. They have urban simulations on military bases. Contrary to much of the reporting Berkley, CA is not the only other city whose mayor does not want the armed forces (not just marines) using their city and citizens for practice purposes. San Antonio's police chief and Miami's mayor have both barred the Delta Forces from using their cities. Miami allowed them in once, but after complaints from many of the citizens (who were unaware of what was happening) he decided to not let them return. San Antonio's police chief decided not to allow them after he was essentially bribed, not respected, and not listened to by the personell setting up the exercises. They tried going behind his back to make it happen but were not successful. A mayor's duty is to serve his citizens, not the marine corps or any other federal department.
The question is why don't we have adequate facilities on our military bases to train our troops? And if we do, then why have higher ups decided to use our cities instead? Our cities are not training grounds and the military has no constitutional right to use them as such. If people begin to get accustomed to military patrolling the streets, I can only see that leading to an even more controlled public in this country. Let us think clearly about the larger issues at hand and not react too quickly to what lies on the surface.

Robert, I'm with you on this. Respectfully to this Mayor, he was made aware of this exercise quite some time ago. I believe he is being untruthful in his explanations to the citizens and the public.

Why should a mayor or police chief allow the armed forces to come into their city to conduct mock urban warfare?

Any true Conservative patriot understands why we do not want the military conducting urban warfare training in populated American cities or towns.

Tim, if a person takes the oath of office, no matter what level, it requires them to protect their citizens. If it takes mock warfare, then so be it. If you're so damn scared of the very military that protects you, then you have a serious problem. That's like a child being afraid of their parents.

Layne, I am a "true conservative". I can assure you the USMC would be welcome in my town anytime. If anyone apposed them, the protesters would not be greeted with Americans counter-protesting.

Russ & Tim, I appreciate the time you took to comment. However, I agree with very little that you say. I will answer one of your questions: "The question is why don't we have adequate facilities on our military bases to train our troops? And if we do, then why have higher ups decided to use our cities instead?" Isn't the answer obvious? The military indeed have facilities to train our troops as does every leader of our enemies. So, is it logical to use these territories for military maneuvers? I think not. I suspect only somebody who does not understand the definition of "covert operations" or military standards, would propose an unimformed queirie.

pamela,

A true conservative loves this country and the Constitution it was founded on. The slow creep of the federal government into every aspect of our lives is getting out of hand. I, myself am a veteran, and I, like my brothers and sisters in arms sacrificed (some more than others) so that our Constitution would be protected.

Urban warfare training in populated American cities is Orwellian at best, and fascist at worst. Wake up…protect this country from those who want to slowly move us into a police state.

What has happened to conservative thought in this country? What is labeled "conservative" today, resembles socialism of the early twentieth century.

Layne, I agree with most everything you are saying. Perhaps my view isn't being understood.

I am not suggesting that urban warfare training, in populated areas, is always best. However, our men and women are fighting in two heavily dominated urban settings. The insurgents are not on a battlefield, they aren't even dressed in fatigues. The cowards are roaming the streets within "heavily populated" areas. If our Marines need to perform their jobs to the best of their abilities and their commanders believe doing this would assist in our ability to root out the enemy, then it needs to be done.

To further clarify, no American should be angry at the USMC enlistees for fighting the fight and training until they know what they need to know in order to protect themselves, their comrades, or civilians. Take it up with the Commanders and leave the enlisted out of it. They are doing what they must.  Don't you see the difference? Leave our USMC, USN, USAF, and every single volunteer recruit alone. Go bitch to the commanders.

 Remember this, there may come a day when a woman in conjuction with others who appear innocent that will  go to any length necessary to kill as many as they can.  It could be anyone who walks into a crowded mall and blows herself up in unison with others. Afterwards, insurgent snipers firing aimlessly at civilians.  Killing hundres.

Americans would be outraged that our military wasn't prepared.  Wake up!  We live in a different time with different threats. This means different maneauvor training is necessary.

Thank you for your service and I respect your opinion. Please try to understand mine.

I love the marines and Pamela knows that very well. I will say this that I do not wish to ever see a police state ever!!! I believe the Mayor reacted in the best interest of his citizens. I personally do not see nothing wrong with the Marines or any Branch of the military conducting exercises in the city if it is done with the citizens in mind and the citizens need to be made aware of this from the beginning. To a child in these towns seeing the military practicing maneuvers can be frightening and that is never the intent of the Marines or any branch of the military. I live where there is an AFB and they practice all the time but we have the luxury of having the base here in our city. I am not upset with this mayor at all, perhaps he could have gone about it in a different way. Berkeley CA is a whole different story and those folks should be ashamed of themselves. I just wanted to make these comments for what it is worth. My fear is one that has plagued me an my generation for years and that is "What have we learned from Viet Nam" regarding the treatment of our military. Apparently Berkeley CA is still living in the 60's and that brings about painful memories for those of the Viet Nam era I have many friends in the good city of Toledo who love this country and our military and I truly believe the situation there was not handled properly by either side the mayor and the marines.

Semper Fi